An American Scholar's View on US-China
Relations
美国学者眼里的中美关系
Y:
Hello, welcome to our programme. We know you are an expert on China,
what would you say about the current Sino-US relations? Do you feel
worried or upset about the rise of China?
L: Actually I've always been excited about China. China has more than
a fifth of the world's population and it's a rapid changing country.
I think that China's success would be good for the world. In fact, I
think that a China that fails would be a danger to the world. So frankly,
I don't worry about the rise of China. I worry that China might not
rise.
Y: A professor of Tsinghua University published
a book a few years ago about the US media demonizing1
the Chinese government and overseas Chinese in America. So I wonder
if your perception of China has also been somewhat influenced by the
US media?
L: Well, living in the US I certainly follow the US media. But as
a specialist on China, I would say my perception is heavily informed
by the development in your country. I have a very considerable access
to the media in China. And I meet with people from China all the time.
Y: How do you get first-hand information about
China?
L: Well, first of all, I come here frequently.
Y: How frequently?
L: Six to eight times a year. I've made all together more than 100
trips to China. I think it's always important to get to a place if you
want to understand a place. Secondly, there is a lot of information
available about China. You publish a lot of journals, social publications
of various sorts. There is a lot of information available through the
World Bank, through your trading partners. So the problem really with
the information on Chinese economy these days is that there is too much
information available, very hard to put it all together.
Y: When I was studying in the university some
twenty years ago, one of my professors said he tended to use the word
"bias"2 to describe one's opinions.
That makes me think about the channel of information available to you.
How accurate, how objective do you think that kind of information could
be in presenting a picture of what's really happening in China nowadays?
L: First of all, the biggest problem with presenting an accurate picture
about what is happening in China is the size and complexity of China.
The reality is that there are parts of China that are effectively like
developed countries at this point, there are parts of China that still
lag far behind. There are different kinds of issues in different parts
of the country. So I think the biggest single problem about China in
presenting an objective picture is simply understanding the balance
in order to put together a very complicated picture. I don't think the
biggest problem is a lack of information or bias or source of information-because
you've raised a lot of types of information. The biggest problem is
understanding the entire picture. And that's not easy.
Y: Many of those who are ignorant about what's
really happening in China tend to show great interest in shaping your
China policy. What can you do to help dispel3
prejudice and misjudgment in this case?
L: Well, I think as a professor I do what other professors do-I speak,
I teach and I write and I try to shape policy by doing interviews, by
writing for the newspapers and for magazines, by publishing scholarly
work that has hopefully solid research that can give some more fundamental
perspectives. And over time, I hope to have some positive effect on
the way people understand this country.
Y: Do you think you would be considered pro-China4
in your country and therefore would come under attacks by the conservatives?
L: There are some conservatives who call me pro-China, call me what
they will term "panda-hugger"5. That's
their right to do so. All I can do is to tell the truth I best understand.
They can give their views. It's a marketplace of ideas.
Y: Do they attack you from time to time or only
under some special circumstances?
L: I found at various times I've been attacked by various people on
the political right and on the political left.6
But that's the way America is-people have their own views, they say
what they think. And as I said, it's a marketplace of ideas. I promote
my own ideas which reflect my own best judgments.
Y: I believe you must be familiar with the case
of Professor Qian Xuesen（钱学森）. He returned to China from America in
the 1950s. It was considered a big blow for the States in terms of brain
drain7. Now in the present day America there
are also a lot of talented Chinese Americans who are outstanding scientists
involved in high-tech industries. Do you fear that they would come back
and serve China one day?
L: As for Doctor Qian's example, that on the part of the US was extremely
stupid. We have not made that mistake in the recent years. There are
Chinese scientists who hold top positions in the US, Chinese engineers
who are at the top of our various corporations, Chinese computer specialists
who are very important in our computer industry and so forth. So I frankly
don't think we worry about brain drain. I think we benefit from the
well-educated Chinese. Many of them were raised in the US, others came
to the US late, and some of them will leave and go out. Well, that's
fine. America is a very open society.
Y: The public opinion is quite divided in America
as to the rise of China in recent years. Some argue that a strong and
prosperous China will be good for the international society and others
say the rapid development of China could pose a serious threat to American
interests in Asia-Pacific region at least. Can I have your analysis
on this point?
L: Sure. It's obviously in America's interest for China both to be
successful and constructive member in the international arena, so that
America and China could cooperate. It's less in America's interest for
China to be successful and regard America as an enemy. That will obviously
pose great problems to us. The biggest threat to America is a China
that fails, a China that becomes unstable. So I think you have to look
at three potential futures. A China that is successful and where US-China
relations are relatively cooperative as both of us have an interest
in maintaining economic growth, maintaining security, cooperating in
counter-terrorism and other issues. A China that is strong but antagonistic8
to the US, in which case I think Asia will suffer a great deal. But
I think the US will still do ok. Or thirdly, a China that is really
unstable. I think that's unlikely but feasible. And if that should occur,
then I think American interests are severely harmed, and obviously Chinese
interests are very severely harmed also.
Y: What do you mean by China being constructive?
L: I mean a China that joins the multilateral regimes9,
that governs many parts of international society whether it's WTO or
the UN, the Asian Development Bank and etc., so that China becomes an
active but stabilizing force in the international arena. Increasingly
China's own health and well-being depend on international trade. So
China's joining WTO benefits the global trading system, I believe. As
China is actively and constructively engaged in various international
efforts, (obviously you will not always agree with the US and we don't
always agree with anyone) I think we'll have a common interest in establishing
rules that everyone can obey.
Y: There is a fear in Japan that China may well
replace them as the engine for the regional development in Asia. How
do you look at that?
L: I think that Asia needs strong Chinese and Japanese economy to
prosper. So my two big worries about Asia are about Chinese and Japanese.
The optimists in Japan now say that the Japanese economy may grow at
about one percent per year for the coming year. That's a very slow growth.
So I think Japan is in quite deep trouble. And I am very concerned about
its future growth.
Y: Another fact is that there is such a concentration
of Taiwanese investment in the Changjiang River Delta10.
How do you look at the impact of the massive Taiwanese investment in
this part of the country in relation to the prospect of unification
of the country?
L: I think that probably makes it less likely that there will be a
tragic escalation of tension across Taiwan Strait11.
That's for several reasons. First of all, many people in Taiwan now
have a very strong economic interest in maintaining at least stability
across the strait. Secondly, large number of people in Taiwan are now
quite familiar with China, especially the Shanghai area, and recognize
that it's a very vibrant12 society. I know
many people in Taiwan will soon live on the mainland for quite some
period of time as part of their business careers. So I think all of
that is stabilizing. At the same time, I don't think that itself is
sufficient to shape a political solution across the strait. I think
that requires some political courage and some political initiative from
each side. So the economic side provides a kind of base that is stabilizing
but doesn't solve all the political problems.
Y: It seems that some people don't like the
idea of a unified China. Can I have your personal judgment on this case?
L: My personal judgment is that provided13
the unification is achieved on the basis of a peaceful and voluntary
agreement by both sides, it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing
because the prospect, the possibility of conflict across the strait
is enormously dangerous. I don't think that would occur but if it occurs
it will have a profound effect on Asia as a whole and on China in particular
and on the US as well. So unification will presumably eliminate that
possibility. The issue then is how unification would occur. If it occurs
through peaceful process without force used by either side, America
will support that outcome.
Y: Thank you for sharing your ideas with us.
1.
demonize: 妖魔化。
2 .
bias: 偏见。
3 .
dispel: 消除，驱散。
4 .
pro-China:支持中国的。
5 . 这里的
panda指代中国。
6 . 政治上的右翼和左翼。
7 .
brain drain: 人才流失。
8.
antagonistic: 敌对的。
9. 多边政体。
10. 长江三角洲。
11. 台湾海峡两岸紧张关系的升级。
12.
vibrant: 充满活力的。
13.
provided: 倘若。
